BÓNG 12AX7 VÀ 12AU7 KHÁC NHAU THẾ NÀO

Discussion in 'Đèn điện tử' started by vitduc, 30/1/12.

  1. vitduc

    vitduc Advanced Member

    Joined:
    4/1/12
    Messages:
    557
    Likes Received:
    20
    Mình mới chơi ampli đèn nên nhờ các bác có kinh nghiệm giải thích dùm 2 loại bóng 12ax7 và 12au7 khác nhau thế nào ạ, vì mình thấy có preamp dùng cả 2 loại bóng trên, nhưng co preamp chi dùng 12ax7 và co preamp chỉ cần dùng 12au7. Các bác đừng cười nếu em hỏi ngô nghê nhé. Rất mong các bác chỉ bảo. tks
     
    Tags:
  2. caithang

    caithang Advanced Member

    Joined:
    6/4/06
    Messages:
    8.982
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    Hanoi
    Em ứ biết dịch

    Subject: Difference between 12AU7 and 12AX7?
    http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/fo ... 26807.html



    As far as pin outs are concerned the 12 series tubes are all interchangeable. The 12AX7 has the highest gain at 100, the 12AT7 is lightly lower and the 12AU7 is the lowest gain of the group. These are rough estimates as each tube will have its own electrical characteristics and just swapping one (new) 12AX7 for another (new) 12AX7 could result in slight higher or lower gain from the circuit.


    Obviously, changing the tube type to a lower or higher gain will affect any circuit after that tube.


    While it is genericaly fine to interchange the 12 series tubes, you should do so with some degree of caution. Inserting a higher gain tube in place of the lower gain tube could easily overdrive the circuits fed by that tube, that will result in distortion. Using a lower gain tube in place of a 12AX7 could (a slight possibility) deprive the following circuits of sufficient amperage which would flatten the sound.


    Lowering the gain with a 12 AT7 or 12 AU7 is the most common procedure and how successful it is depends on the circuitry it feeds. There are other ways to go about reducing gain in most amplifiers.


    There are also European numbers equivalent to all American tubes and military use numbers for tubes which would otherwise qualify as a generic 12AX7, AU7 or any other audio tube on the market.


    There's no way to tell you why the designer is using a 12AX7 and a 12AU7 other than the two tubes probably serve different fiunctions in the amplifier. One might serve as the phase splitter and the other the pre amp or driver tube. These are "dual triodes" and there are two complete tube sections in each capsule, therefore, one tube can serve both left and right channels depending on the layout of the amp. This is a more common practice with more modern tubes since tubes have risen in cost so dramatically over the last few decades. Vintage amps from the Golden Age of audio will probably have 1/2 of the tube being used to feed one channel since these amps were designed when good tubes cost a few dollars at most.

    My advice tends to stay with convention and suggests the designer had various tubes available to them. I would expect there to be a fairly good reason why the designer chose specific tubes for specific applications. To mess with that is in one sense trying to redesign the amplifier.












    onsider why a manufacturer might choose a specific tube. Beyond the decision to use a 12AX7 here and 6DJ8 there, which are functions of the circuit itself, a brand and a specific version of tube (high/low in the manufacturer's line up) will often be determined by a few not so sonically relevant features.


    The first consideration is almost always availability. This has improved over the last 15 years or so as tube manufacturing has remained steady for the demand. None the less, a component manufacturer needs to know their choice of tube will be available for as long as they are building that component and then available in sufficient quantity to allow for spares, say, ten years out as units come in for repair or maintenance servicing. The general attitude of most component manufacturers is to produce a consistent product over time and, should the unit need repair or maintenance, to have the ability to hand the client back what they purchased.

    Believe it or not, not all tube component owners engage in tube rolling. And customers get very upset if what they hear coming out of the repair shop is - to their ear - significantly "different" than what they feel they had at the time of purchase. A manufacturer must have the ability to rebuild exactly the same component ten years after the last one rolled off the assembly line. To do that they will need those same tubes that went in on the production line.


    Next the component manufacturer needs to have a reliable tube that won't go up in smoke during the new owner's intial listening session and hopefully not at all. Tubes that have proven their reliability have a leg up when it comes to use in new equipment. Rugged tubes and tubes that produce excellent sound do a very delicate dance with one another. The musical instrument side of tubes is still what drives tube manufacturing far more than does high end audio. What a working musician wants from their tubes is typically a far cry from what the owner of a 150 watt VTL wants.


    Then, as a consideration, you won't find anyone on the low end - and only one I know of at the very top end - supplying NOS tubes as OEM product. The component manufacturer is there to produce the most consistent product they can and NOS tubes not only increase the price significantly they also are not a reliable source should the model catch on and production numbers outpace expectations.


    Finally, the sonic values of a tube are considered and its cost, availability and reliability weighed against what someone hears. If the component contains circuits which require very low noise tubes, they will be chosen as such. Not all circuits require low noise tubes and it is often a waste of money to buy tubes sold as "low noise" for most modern line stages. Save your money for low noise phono stage tubes and don't worry about the rest. With the high-ish input voltages of modern digital sources there just isn't a good justification for the aditional cost in a line stage other than the buyer's mental satisfaction.


    In the competitve tube market of today review magazines no longer tend to do tube rolling as a general basis for review. Years ago all reviewers had a stash of NOS tubes made from "unobtainium". Expensive tubes in super short supply that were passsed on to the reviewer by some manufacturer wanting a better than average review found their way into any component under review and the "final" assessment was made based on the sound of the component outfitted with these "super tubes". That day has, for the most part, passed and manufacturers need to get their reviews with their stock OEM product. So, while sonic value is lower on the list of considerations than several other qualities, sound is still regarded as being very high on the manufacturer's list of desires when selecting their circuits based around a 12AX7, a 6DJ8 or any other tube used in today's audio components.


    I disagree with Nuck about the sound of a tube changing over the first initial days or weeks of listening. I'm somewhat in the minority in that regard. Capacitors and transformers within the circuit obviously settle in and the sound of the component is different at the end of a month of constant use than when it was fresh from the box. IMO tubes are tubes and there is no "burn in" period, they either work or they do not work. You can make up your mind just what is burning in in your amplifier.


    I do agree with Nuck that you should not rush into tube rolling unless the tubes in the amplifier are worn out or defective. Listen to the music your component reproduces and get used to the qualities which are important to you just as you should any other component or speaker. You should have your priorities and allow them to settle in to what you are hearing. Most tubed components require more set up care and respond well to such attention to detail when compared to solid state equivalents. Therefore, it makes more sense to invest in excellent isolation feet or a better stand than in expensive NOS tubes that will not preform at their best in a losuy set up. Most tube gear will have higher impedances than many solid state components. You should understand what values are relevant and how to deal with those values should they be present in your component. Specific cables that worked well with a Rotel might not be your best choice with a Conrad Johnson.


    Tube rolling, is well worth your time if you can determine which tube will best suit your system. Buying new (or NOS) tubes without sufficient research can prove costly. Just because you've read Svetlana or GE 12AX7's are wonderful tubes is not enough reason to rush into buying those tubes. For a highly ubiquitous tube such as a 12AX7 or 6550 remember these tubes have been in production for decades and buying a tube by brand is no indication you will be buying the tube you read about. This is especially true in NOS tubes where forgeries and fudging information are quite common. I have several sets of Amperex 6DJ8's that all sound different from each other. I gave MW a baggie full of various 12AX7's to experiment with.


    Take your time and do your research. Don't buy based on what someone else likes any more than you would any other component. Once you purchase tubes they are typically yours to keep, no exchanges other than for defective tubes. There are, as I mentioned, more than few substitutions for a 12AX7 which make the selection process even more difficult. Determine what the tube is doing in the circuit, a phase splitter's effective will not be as profound in determining the sound you arrive at as would a driver tube.


    As always, my advice is to know what you are after in terms of priorities and find the component or the tube that satisfies those priorities.








    Any tube product and certainly any tube product with large output transformers will sound better after it has warmed up for about 30 minutes. However, should you be considering it, the value of leaving the amplifier powered up constantly must be weighed against extremely shortened tube life and, should anything go wrong while the amp is unattended, say, a tube spits loudly as it burns off some excess gas to the more drastic possibility the tube ceases operation, you are risking potential damage to your amp and speakers.


    Having spare tubes will be the simplest way to perform basic troubleshooting on a tube based component. If you have a complete set of input tubes now, I would recommend you also obtain a set of outputs - at least a single pair. They need not be anything special - I have some old "International" tubes that were white box specials culled from various manufacturers and not at all matched in any way. They are only serviceable IMO as troubleshooting tubes when I'm trying to find out if a tube is at the heart of a problem and I don't care to risk a more expensive tube to find out. Of course, you want to make sure any tube you buy operates properly before you put it away for troubleshooting purposes otherwise, you might be looking at a failed tube when the problem exists elsewhere.

    Tubes can go out for no reason other than it was a bad tube. However, if a tube has survived in a circuit for several months to several years and then fails, there's a good chance something else tied to that tube, a bias resistor, coupling capacitor, etc, has failed and this caused the tube to follow suit.









    Thirty minutes should in most cases be sufficient time to get the equipment to near maximum fidelity. The quality might increase slightly after that period but not as significantly as in those first few minutes.

    My tube pre amp is at max fidelity in about ten to fifteen minutes and no changes can be perceived from that point forward. My Mac tube amps have lots of heavy iron and copper in their transformers and they will still be improving at a noticeable rate for the first hour or two. The Mac's run very cool at idle and while I add a cooling fan to their non-use cycle they will still have very minor improvements in quality for the first few days after they have been left to completely cool down. Conversely, with all that iron and copper packed into a heavily potted transformer they take a long time to completely cool down. If I were to use then on a daily schedule I could easily allow them to sit powered down for the day and they would be close to their best performance within about 45 minutes. My "normal" operation for the power amps is to allow them to sit powered up virtually 24/7, at idle with a cooling fan running and then switch off the fans about 1/2 hour before I listen to music. They are plugged into an AC conditioner which will shut down should current draw from a defective component dramatically increase. If something cataclysmic should happen when the amps are unatteneded, there's a very good chance they (and the rest of the house) will be protected from further harm.


    As I warned David, you need to be very certain of your amp's stability if you intend to leave it unattended for long periods of time. That really is the case for tubes and transistors alike as a defective cap or tube can cause a very loud noise which could easily destroy a driver. You can't predict when a tube or other component might become noisey (I had a filter cap fail while MW and I were listening to music the other day, rather rare but lots of things can happen with audio gear) and it could easily happen when you are not in the room with the amp.


    Tube power amps should not run powered up without the load of a loudspeaker on their outputs. If you have your system in an area of the house where a child, pet or unknowing house cleaner could accidentally disconnect a speaker lead, you could end up with a very dead amplifier and a very large repair bill. When I still had a cat he jumped onto the chromed top plate of one amplifier and took out a tube at a moment when I didn't have the tube cage in place.


    (That was not what killed the cat though I was tempted ... )


    A vacuum tube has a finite life span and anyone using tubes must decide how to expend that life. The two most important features to come along relating to tube life have been the introduction of a soft start cycle and a standby function. Plug in a Dyna ST70 (or almost any vintage tube amp) from the 1950's through '70's and the tubes immediately glow brightly as if they were a light bulb on a wall switch. They are being hit with a solid 120VAC and this will shorten tube life by a considerable margin.

    We always use to tell those service customers who said their gear worked fine until they powered it up one night that they probably blew out lights when they flicked the switch rather than while they were reading the newspaper. As with a lamp or most other electronic components it is the continuous heating and cooling, heating and cooling, heating and cooling cycle which eventually weaken the internals of any component.


    My 1960's Mac amps have what are called "thermistors" in the incoming AC line which maintain a high resistive value when they are "cold" until the voltage slowly begins to warm the component and as it warms the thermistor's resistance drops steadily and slowly until it is virtually non-existent in the line. My tubes remain "off" for the first few seconds and then rise slowly in intensity for the next ten seconds until they reach the point where they will pass a signal. Soft start circuits have become far more complicated and more sophisticated over the last decades but the overall effect is to extend tube life by not allowing 120VAC to slam into a cold tube.


    That brings us to the standby circuits which have become common over the last few decades. My 1980's AI pre amp has a standby circuit which keeps the tubes at a trickle voltage and therefore never completely cooled down unless I pull the plug from the wall. The standby circuit also means the tubes reach their maximum potential faster than a tube which must rise from the ashes each time you throw the switch. Standby circuits still eat into the tubes' lifespan though. Minimally and with the advantage of better sound sooner but they are decreasing tube life while they sit at idle. With two sets of (what now sell for) $250+ @ pair tubes in the pre amp, this doesn't always make me sleep any better when I haven't used the system for awhile.


    Small signal tubes (12AX7's, 6DJ8's, etc.) have extended lifespan when compared to power output tubes. You could use a tube pre amp for decades and possibly still not have to replace tubes despite the fact virtually any modern pre amp runs in class A operation. Output tubes are likely to be in need of replacement after a few years - at best! - of normal, regular operation. If your amplifier runs hot, it is again the hot/cold cycle which wears tubes out and sets them up for failure. If your amp runs cool - like the vintage Macs or several other modern equivalents - you might get a lifespan of four or five years from a set of power tubes. Running a power amplifier hard will increase the heat and therefore shorten the tube's life by a small amount just as it will shorten the lifespan of any resistor, capacitor or other semi-conductor in the amplifier. Amplifiers must reach a certain operating voltage which determines a certain operating temperature and, therefore, running a tube amp at low volume still eats away at tube life and does not increase the life of the tube just because you aren't pounding out the watts.


    You get to decide how to use the lifespan of a tube. The only way to not decrease the useful life of a tube is to not use it at all even in a standby situation.


    Keep in mind in any class AB amplifier the tube is constantly being turned "on" and "off" in respect to pasing a signal by the nature of the class of operation. One of the supposed sonic differences between tubes and solid state is the fact transistors totally switch off and on constantly during their duty cycle while tubes take a moment to power down with the signal gradually fading away rather than being completely switched off. Therefore, while the class of operation dictates a constant on/off cycle of signal flow, tubes don't follow the same rules as will transistors.


    Be aware, however, that tubes begin to deteriorate from the first moment they placed in an operational circuit. Tubes reduce output voltage while noise and distortion increases over time. While your tubes might live to a ripe old age and still make musical sounds they are simply not the same tube you started with after even a few months of operation.



    Biasing arrangements in power amplifiers also play a role in how fast your tubes wear out. Fixed or auto-bias amplifiers tend to extend life due to their unique arrangements of monitoring tube aging. User adjustable biasing tends to shorten life while providing some degree of flexibility to the user. Arguments have gone on for decades over the sonic advantages of various bias configurations. If you'd like to research these opinions, try here; http://www.worldtubeaudio.com/


    As the cost of tubes has risen steadily over the last few decades and more and more people become convinced they must have NOS tubes for their gear, attempts to extend tube life have become fairly common. The two things you must be aware of are; 1) tubes have a finite lifespan, and, 2) tube quality begins to shorten from the moment you first use a tube and continues every moment there after.
     
    hungpleiku likes this.
  3. Mike

    Mike Advanced Member

    Joined:
    11/9/09
    Messages:
    9.171
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    San Fanx...Long
    Em chỉ hiểu bóng 12AX7 là tiền đạo, còn 12 AU7 là tiền vệ cánh, lật cánh đánh đầu ạ...

    Còn thêm nữa về kỹ thuật em rất yếu, nên mong bác Kông Xẹc Tô có đi ngang qua topic này thì giải thích em còn được hiểu cho cặn kẽ hơn.

    Kính.
     
  4. antonop

    antonop Advanced Member

    Joined:
    4/11/08
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    7
    Khác nhau ở chữ U và X :D ,đùa tý;bác cứ tra thông số kt của hai bóng,thì biết nó khác nhau ở cái gì.12ax7 thường dùng cho mạnh phono...
     
  5. vitduc

    vitduc Advanced Member

    Joined:
    4/1/12
    Messages:
    557
    Likes Received:
    20
    bài viết tiếng anh khá hay các bác ạ. tiếc là em kô phải dân trong nghề nên kô hiểu hết các thuật ngữ. em chỉ thắc mắc là pre chạy 12ax7 chất lượng có cao hơn 12au7 kô nhỉ, chắc là hơn phải kô các bác. kô biết đã bác nào có dịp so sánh chưa ạ?
     
  6. Wildhorse

    Wildhorse Advanced Member

    Joined:
    12/3/08
    Messages:
    1.430
    Likes Received:
    3
    cái này còn tuy bóng, tuy mạch.
    vì 2 bóng này khác nhau rất nhiều (chỉ giống chân cẳng thôi). chẳng hạn bóng 12AX7 HSKD 100 còn 12AU là 20.
    12AU gần giống 6SN7.
     
  7. huyhoanghp96

    huyhoanghp96 Advanced Member

    Joined:
    7/7/11
    Messages:
    3.818
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    HBG198 = beer + ghẹ
    Hi em chưa được thử nhưng thấy nhiều người có ý kiến cho rằng bóng 12AX7 thiên về hướng thiên sáng , thích hợp cho mạch phono vì có hệ số khuếch đại lớn , còn 12AU7 thì tiếng ấm áp hơn (món này em được hân hạnh thử rùi :mrgreen: ) ,thích hợp cho nhạc nhẹ , trữ tình ,nhiều bass.TÙy vào gu nghe nhạc để chọn bóng .còn về thông số kĩ thuật anh chỉ cần tra datasheet là ổn :D Em thấy audio note có dùng phono sài cả 12AU7 và 12AX7 , chắc là được lợi về mọi mặt :mrgreen:
     
  8. trinhngoc293

    trinhngoc293 Advanced Member

    Joined:
    23/11/08
    Messages:
    5.837
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Xã đoàn Gầm Cầu
    Đừng chỉ bảo người khác dựa trên những gì mình nghe từ tai người khác mà chưa nghe thực sự. Điều đó không mang tính tích cực cho lắm :mrgreen:
    Mà iem cũng chửa hiểu bác chủ hỏi với nội dung gì nữa? :oops:
     
  9. huyhoanghp96

    huyhoanghp96 Advanced Member

    Joined:
    7/7/11
    Messages:
    3.818
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    HBG198 = beer + ghẹ
    Hi sorry bác , dạ ý cháu chỉ là cháu đã đọc được ý kiến như thế chứ không có ý bảo là ý kiến nào cũng là như vầy ạ , có thể cháu còn trẻ chưa hiểu nhiều , sorry các bác nhiều ạ , cháu xin được chuộc lỗi bằng cách đổi chữ "nhiều" thành chữ "có" :D Thanks bác đã chỉ giáo ạ :D
     
  10. Limk

    Limk Advanced Member

    Joined:
    5/9/09
    Messages:
    1.403
    Likes Received:
    7
    Như bác antonop đã post, 12AX7 và 12AU7 khác nhau như hai cái tên cho dù hình dáng bên ngoài một số loại giống hệt nhau.
    Cây bên trái là ECC83/12AX7, cây bên phải là ECC82/12AU7.
    Tham khảo https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm để biết thêm thông tin.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. vitduc

    vitduc Advanced Member

    Joined:
    4/1/12
    Messages:
    557
    Likes Received:
    20
    Cảm ơn các bác đã cho nhiều ý kiến và quan điểm về việc mình hỏi. Thực ra mình chỉ muốn biết tại sao có pre dùng mỗi bóng 12AX7, có loại lại chỉ dùng 12AU7 mà có loại dùng kết hợp cả 2 bóng trên. Nay em hiểu thế này theo bản tiếng Anh ạ. Các bác xem đúng hay sai thì chỉnh sửa hộ em nhé. 12AX7 có mu factor (hay độ khoéch đại) cao nhất, sau đó là 12AT7 và cuối cùng là 12AU7. Nếu lắp nhầm 12AX7 vào vị trí 12AU7 sẽ làm mạch cấp làm việc quá tải và sẽ gây ra hiện tượng méo tiếng. Ngược lại nếu lắp nhầm 12AU7 vào vị trí 12AX7 sẽ làm các mạch nằm sau bóng kô dc cung cấp đủ dòng và gây ra hiện tượng tiếng bị "phẳng" (flat). Trong amp dùng cả 12AX7 và AU7 thì 12AU7 hay được dùng để tách pha, còn 12AX7 dùng để khoéch đại.
    Nếu có gì kô đúng nhờ anh em chỉnh sửa dùm ngay hộ mình nhé. Tks
     
  12. tuanvx

    tuanvx Advanced Member

    Joined:
    12/3/11
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Em chào các bác tiện đây cho em hỏi luôn em mới tập tành chơi đèn đóm tại Sao 12ax7 lại đắt hơn 12au7 nhiều vậy hay là do chất âm của tầng loại
     
  13. Vuky

    Vuky Advanced Member

    Joined:
    27/9/11
    Messages:
    502
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Non Alliance

    Dạ theo em cái này nó phụ thuộc vào cung cầu thị trường ạ. Bóng nào hiếm thì nó đắt nhiều thì nó rẻ vì hiện tại các bóng này hầu như không còn sản xuất
     
  14. minhhp6365

    minhhp6365 Advanced Member

    Joined:
    4/11/06
    Messages:
    3.068
    Likes Received:
    364
    Bác vào Guc tải phần mềm của cái này : "TDSL Personal Edition 1.1"
     
  15. alibaba81

    alibaba81 Advanced Member

    Joined:
    29/6/11
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    HCM City
    em thì chỉ biết giá cả (thứ tự từ cao đến thấp) : 12ax7>12au7>12at7>........ còn về chất âm như thế nào thì tùy theo mạch thiết kế..... :)
     
    makalixo likes this.
  16. TienDung75

    TienDung75 Advanced Member

    Joined:
    1/7/12
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    0
    Chào các bác!
    Em cũng mới chơi đèn amly của em 1 mạch dùng 2 bóng au7+1 ECC85, 1 mạch dùng 4 bóng ax7
    Các cao thủ cho biết ECC85 ở giữa 2 au7 có tác dụng gì ko? nếu thay có cải thiện gì về chất âm ko?
    Thân
     
  17. cuong11311

    cuong11311 Approved Member

    Joined:
    5/12/13
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    1
    tùy theo thiết kế mạch các bác ạ
     
  18. hiend-to-end

    hiend-to-end Advanced Member

    Joined:
    25/9/06
    Messages:
    1.121
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    HANOI
    Em nghe nói đỉnh nhất của dòng 12AX7 là bóng 803S Telefuken và đỉnh nhất của dòng 12AU7 là bóng 802S Telefuken. Em nghe cũng nhiều loại 12AU7 và 12AX7 nhưng bập vào dòng 802s và 803s kia thì không thể nào bỏ đc các cụ ạ. Đắt ngang nhau.

    Hete
     
  19. lenamvl

    lenamvl Advanced Member

    Joined:
    5/3/14
    Messages:
    4.874
    Likes Received:
    1.823
    .

    Kỹ sư chính của hãng Rogue Audio khi trả lời phỏng vấn của tạp chí Stereophile có nói 12 AX7 có hệ số khuyếch đại lớn hơn nhưng ông xài 12AU7 để làm pre vì ông thấy nhạc tính của nó tốt hơn , âm thanh mềm mại hơn .
    Ông cũng dùng 12AU7 để làm driver trong power .
    Dàn máy của mình có xài 2 con 12AU7 .
    Nói thêm bóng này hay hơn bóng kia phụ thuộc chính vào mạch lắp ráp .Vẫn có con pre xài 12AX7 nhưng hay hơn hẳn con xài 12AU7 , chỉ có điều giá cao gấp rưỡi thui
     
  20. Modernized

    Modernized Advanced Member

    Joined:
    12/2/16
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    19
    803S và 12AX7 không hoàn toàn giống nhau do đó khi thay thế lẫn nhau sẽ cho kết quả khác nhau chứ không đồng nghĩa là 803S sẽ cho luôn cho kết quả tốt hơn so với 12AX7 nếu chưa muốn nói nhiều khi ngược lại. 803S chỉ có 1 ưu điểm là thường được thiết kế bền bỉ hơn 12AX7 mà thôi (tuổi thọ 10K giờ so với 5K giờ)... Còn những chất lượng kỹ thuật khác thì chưa chắc ... Có 1 bóng hiện thời vẫn còn rất rẻ được thiết kế thập kỷ 60s (thừa hưởng nhiều công nghệ sau 12AX7/803S nhiều năm) cho chất lượng vượt qua 803S mà giá rẻ gấp 50 lần so với 803S với thời giá hôm nay :wink:
    Thực sự với người DIY thì 6SL7 hoặc 5691 vượt qua 803S mà giá rẻ hơn nhiều lần .... RCA 5691 đế đỏ được thiết kế tuổi thọ 10K giờ ..
     
  21. lenamvl

    lenamvl Advanced Member

    Joined:
    5/3/14
    Messages:
    4.874
    Likes Received:
    1.823
    .

    Nếu cùng một hãng sx thì bóng 12 AU7 đắt hơn bóng 12 AX7 một chút thôi ( có 10 đô thôi ).
    Với những bóng như Telefulken , Mullard thì công nhận ngon thật nhưng do sx vào những năm 50 -60 của thế kỷ trước nên bây giờ không còn nhiều . Theo quy luật cung cầu thì càng có ít giá càng cao .
    Với những bóng Telefulken , Mullard
    được Nga sx gần đây (- 2010 -2014 ) theo bản quyền của 2 hãng trên thì giá cũng vừa phải , khoảng 80 -90 đô /cặp
    Mặc dù mới chơi pre , power đèn khoảng 3 năm nhưng mình cũng thử nghiệm nhiều và rút ra kết luận là mạch điện thiết kế cực kỳ quan trọng . Ví dụ con pre của mình thì mình đã hỏi ông kỹ sư hãng khi muốn thay bóng cho hay hơn , độ tách bạch cao hơn . Ông trả lời là ông thiết kế trên bóng Tàu và cứ thay bóng Tàu chất lượng cao là hay nhất . Thực tế đúng y như vậy
     
  22. ducanh900

    ducanh900 Advanced Member

    Joined:
    24/5/09
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    356
    Thế pre của bác chỉ bán cho dân China nghe thôi à? Bóng China vừa ồn ào vừa thiếu nhạc tính, âm thanh thì xòe tùm lum thì nghe thế nào?
     
  23. lenamvl

    lenamvl Advanced Member

    Joined:
    5/3/14
    Messages:
    4.874
    Likes Received:
    1.823
    Khi nói thẳng , nói thật thì các huynh lại không tin ...???? .
    Tất cả phụ thuộc vào mạch thiết kế , xin nhắc lại là mạch thiết kế cực kỳ quan trọng .
    Con pre của mình do hãng Rogue Audio Mỹ chế tạo năm 2012 . Năm 2013 - 2014 nhập về VN . Hãng không hề có chi nhánh ở bất cứ đâu ngoài 1 nơi duy nhất là Rogue Audio ,Inc. 3 Marian Lane , Brodheadsville , PA 18322 .
    Con pre xài 2 bóng 6SN7 GT của Tàu . Mình có mail cho hãng là muốn nâng cấp thì thay bằng bóng nào ? Thư trả lời là mua bóng Nga , hoặc Trung chân vàng loại đắt hơn . Mình làm theo và = tuyệt vời
    Con power Medusa cũng của Rogue Audio . Con này xài 2 bóng 12AU7 của Nga . Mình mua con này tháng 2 năm 2015 . Mình cũng hỏi hãng và được cho biết nếu nâng cấp thì thay bóng Nga loại đắt hơn hoặc bóng Psvane 12AU7 của Tàu loại 99 đô /cặp . Mình đã mua cả 2 bóng Nga , 2 bóng Tàu để dự trữ . Mình chưa thay để thử vì thấy âm thanh hay quá rồi nên cứ xài 1 ,2 năm rồi tính tiếp
    Bóng theo máy loại 30 đô /cặp . Bóng mình mua loại chân vàng giá 99 đô /cặp . Riêng bóng Psvane 6SN7 loại đặc biệt của Tàu giá 199 đô /cặp .

    Bạn có thể tìm đọc " Rogue Audio Medusa , âm thanh kiểu mới " đăng trên tạp chí Nghe Nhìn số tháng 9-2013
     
  24. dungAD

    dungAD Advanced Member

    Joined:
    4/2/10
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Bắc Giang
    12AX và 12AU thì tùy mạch thiết kế mà dùng, khác nhau cơ bản là hệ số khuyếch đại. 12ax7 hệ số KĐ cao thường dùng cho mạch phono và dùng cho tiền khuyếch đại, 12au7 gain tầm gần 20 lần dùng cho tiền khuyếch đại hoặc tầng lái.
    803S và 802S nếu của tele thì 803s gấp đôi tiền ( hơn ngàn đô 1 cặp )
    Bóng đã hay thì lắp vào ampli nào cũng hay, bóng Tầu ko hay thì lắp ampli nào cũng không hay, có điều bóng hay, cổ, quý mà lắp vào ampli Tầu rẻ tiền thì tốn tiền.
    To Duccanh009: Cặp bóng anh nhúp của em cho ông anh trên tài Tele nhiều mà hôm rồi có người hỏi anh ko nhớ nổi tên.
     
  25. ducanh900

    ducanh900 Advanced Member

    Joined:
    24/5/09
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    356
    12AX và 12AU thì tùy mạch thiết kế mà dùng, khác nhau cơ bản là hệ số khuyếch đại. 12ax7 hệ số KĐ cao thường dùng cho mạch phono và dùng cho tiền khuyếch đại, 12au7 gain tầm gần 20 lần dùng cho tiền khuyếch đại hoặc tầng lái.
    803S và 802S nếu của tele thì 803s gấp đôi tiền ( hơn ngàn đô 1 cặp )
    Bóng đã hay thì lắp vào ampli nào cũng hay, bóng Tầu ko hay thì lắp ampli nào cũng không hay, có điều bóng hay, cổ, quý mà lắp vào ampli Tầu rẻ tiền thì tốn tiền.
    To Duccanh009: Cặp bóng anh nhúp của em cho ông anh trên tài Tele nhiều mà hôm rồi có người hỏi anh ko nhớ nổi tên.[/quote]

    Nó là Overlord HD 803S anh nhé. So với tele 803S thì không so được anh ạ. Tele nó hơn nhiều lắm vì nó là nước thánh mà anh.
     

Share This Page

Loading...